As usual, I'm looking for ways to fine tune life.

Building a boat is on the "possibility" list.

I've considered Brent (our member's) boats when looking at monohulls to build. I've considered Wharrams, Easycats and Kelsalls for catamarans.

As much as I know Brent's boats are much less money to run and build, I'm not sure I can go back to a monohull after having made the switch!

So, I'm looking for opinions and ideas on the pros and cons of building using the KSS method Derek Kelsall uses, or doing a plywood boat like an Easy Catamaran

I have my own list of ideas on the subject, but I'm wondering what you all think of these two different build methods, the time it might save to use either and the cost of materials for these different build techniques.

Also, what do you think of the quality of the finished hull having a foam cored fiberglass boat, vs. a plywood boat that's glassed or epoxies over?

First of all, you can adapt to whatever. You liked it before and I think you could adapt to it just fine again. But I do think you should look at other designers, materials and methods for the sake of completeness.

I would go for the Kelsall over the EasyCat but I think you should look at Kurt Hughes and his not-so-well named Cylinder Mold method.

My question for you is this: how bad do you want to build a boat? There are lots of folks that start it but don't finish -- that would be catastrophic. Really, if the burning issue is to make something beautiful, you need to build one. But if the goal is an inexpensive boat, you would do better to rehab one instead.

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Regards,

Maren

The sea is always beautiful, sometimes mysterious and, on occasions, frighteningly powerful.

Sean
I think the first points to consider are
Are you able to devote 3,000 hours minimum to build a smaller ply cat or maybe 5,000 for something like I am building.
Where will you build it without having to pay rent for years. On a tight budget this will be significant.
The Easy builders seem to spend about the same as your current boat and they are very cost concious, so how will this route save you money. My budget for the Schionning is twice the cost of an Easy.
Where will you live while you build. If you sell to finance the new one rent would most likely kill the advantages of it

Mike

So I have to ask the same kind of questions.
Did you just fall in love with the idea of building a new boat yourself or do you really see a way to come out ahead financially. The question has already been asked,
"Where will you build it and where will you live while you do?"
This is not an over night or one season project. If you plan to keep chartering with your present boat while building this boat where will you get the money after paying the boat payment you have now.
I have to stick with the adage, "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush!"
However, if you are bent on this project and you really like Brents method but want a Cat perhaps you could modify Brents hulls and methods to create a Brent Swain Oragami Cat! Simply copy the Hobie Cat hulls and increase the size and make it functional for a large crusing cat. This would mean making the hulls part of the living space of course.

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What the hell did I just do

Sailboats/Sailplanes......similar? I often compare what I know about flying with sailing. We have been using composite construction in radio control models, as well as full size sailplanes for a long time.



This is the bottom, showing carbon fiber over foam.



This is the top, fiberglass over foam.

You can support these at each end, and stand on them, and nothing is going to break! When doing a zoom launch, one of these sailplanes is going like 150 mph.

I love composite construction, but it's rather expensive. I'd guess the Vendee Globe boats were made with this type of construction and materials. I can't see it being a cheap way to go, but you'd have a hell of a boat!

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"Everybody has to believe in something. I believe I'll have another beer."
--W.C. Fields

Hunter 36
s/v FUGUE
Kemah, Tx.

Dereck Kelsell's method is esentially that I think. Make huge composite panels and then push them into shape. The bits that don't like to conform are left unglassed then glassed latter. Not a bad way but I think the shape is a bit limited.
But even a steel orrigami mono is a huge amout of hours.
Brent How many hours would you estimate for one of yours. Especially if your making all the bits to keep costs down.

Mike

Good input. Yes, Mike... I'm looking at ways to obtain a boat for less than what my boat would cost.

I purchased my boat for charter - day charters. It happens to be a good cruising boat, but I did not use any emotion purchasing her. I made a logical choice to purchase a boat that was good for day chartering and had deck space. I wasn't sold on cats when I first purchased her. I was just filling a need to load the deck up with people on a boat that was "affordable" to me. My plan was to pay her off chartering before the economy fell off a cliff here and took many tourists with it.

I do have the time, drive and patience to build a boat. No problem there. The issue is (and has been for a while), funds. Ultimately, I was exploring this idea because I have a very nice, fancy looking boat (inside) and find that paying all this money for her isn't really what I'm after.

The wife and I are not typical people. We aren't looking for a pretty boat to live a dream. This is real life for us, since we have been aboard quite some time now. We just want a platform that can cross oceans and doesn't break the bank. We also have really become used to catamarans. For us, they work perfectly.

So... we have one goal: Spend as little as possible on a catamaran and get one that's very sea worthy.

To that end, our current boat isn't quite a perfect fit. She's able to take quite a beating, but she is still very expensive. She's actually double the price we "paid" for her because with interest, that's how it goes. You pay double. We aren't fond of loans and I only had one because I was doing this as a charter business. Now, without that particular income, the loan isn't making sense - and neither is paying for an interior I could care less about. I don't want pretty. I want seaworthy and cheap. I don't care about resale value because once we are free of boat payments and interest, we will have only normal living/cruising expenses.

So... those are the driving forces to figuring out if building a boat is the right choice.

Of course, I would need to consider all methods, but ultimately, I would like to build a hull and fit it out with only the very basic of essentials, cutting down the "land time" to as small as possible and the expenses down as well. It would seem you could fit her out later on, as you were already aboard. I'd like to do this provided it would be cheaper.

I mean, the boat I have now would cost me $180K or so if I paid full term on the loan. That's a rip off. I need something I own outright because it makes financial sense. It doesn't matter how ugly the boat - just how good she is at handling seas and sailing.

I had felt that the KSS method was better than building a fiberglass/epoxy over ply boat because you end up with a boat that can't rot or have water seep into the core. Although... the Easy Cat type boats have the advantage of being readily fixable wherever you are since you can always find some wood and carry extra epoxy and stuff.

Basically, I'm trying to see if there is a way to get a decent cat hull for a low price, to be fitted out slowly (and poorly) by me as I live aboard. Not paying $180K over time for a loan will surely put me way out ahead if I can build a cat hull for $40K or $50K or so. These are the ideas I'm trying to wrap my head around. Also, trying to understand if a KSS boat or a plywood boat is the right way to go and what the cost difference and number of hours involved would be for a cat around 40 feet.

Thank you very much for the input... I'm exploring an area I know little about right now. I have always maintained that it was cheaper to find a used boat, but catamaran prices are outrageous. Looking at building hulls vs. market value for 40ft catamarans, there is a huge gap.

EDIT: I also wanted to add that if you spend $180K slowly paying off a boat, that's its true cost. If I spend $50K building a cat (maybe not doable), I am ahead by a long shot, financially, as there is not really any work that will pay me this difference in the time it takes to build a boat.

Sean check this out.

For Sale 40 ft Trimaran Piver Victress

Good luck with your further adventures.

Paul

Hmmm! Interesting.

I've never sailed a trimaran and I don't understand the layouts in these boats, but looking at the pictures and the boat, it looks right.

Not sure... how do they handle rough conditions? Ocean crossings? Are they well proven?

Man, Paul - you're good with finding things online!

Yes, but it is currently being discussed on another site you used to be active on. Incidentally, so was this Craigslist classified:

As for how well proven they are, I would check out the Case for the Cruising Trimaran (Jim Brown) and the Cruising Multihull (Chris White). Both are boat designers and you should be able to get the later at many libraries or bookstores.

I personally think a used, owner-built, glass over marine ply, which was by a diligent owner is one of the very best values in boating. period.

That said, a tri has a bit less interior volume than a mono of the same length because the hulls have to be a bit finer whereas at about the 30' mark, a cat is really starting to shine in that area. But really, does this matter? It does if you're thinking you'll be doing charters. The other disadvantage is a tri is wide, so anchoring out is norm.

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Regards,

Maren

The sea is always beautiful, sometimes mysterious and, on occasions, frighteningly powerful.